SPEAKER_00 0:00

When you think of golf, you probably just think of a game with a small ball and a large stick or a sport that's been around for a long time. Today, Mike David is going to be telling us about the impact Game of Golf has had in community and around our state. He's been at this job of leading Indiana Golf Association for 36 years, and it is exciting to hear the impact golf is having on our community, and I can't wait to get into the conversation. Welcome back, everybody, to We Plural Podcast Community on Purpose. And oh my goodness, did I promise you that we were going to have extraordinary guests on this podcast? Today is no exception, and it is my honor and privilege to welcome a man of many honors, himself, Mike David, who's the executive director of Indiana Golf for 30 plus years.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

36?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

36 years. Oh my gosh. So I don't want you to miss a thing. So we're gonna get started. And um I got your resume, Mike, and literally I told you we could talk for two hours. Your resume is just so extraordinary, extraordinary, and it's filled with so much experience, including uh golfer hall of fame, Indiana Hall of Fame, you've golf for ball state, award, award, award. And then how many of us at age 27 get to walk into something you love and that you've been able to stay with?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yeah, literally fell into it, actually. It's it's not I'm I'm a primary case of it's not what you know, it's who you know. And uh the timing was was great. And uh I had five jobs out of college and the first four years out of college, had no idea what I really wanted to do. And then the opportunity came with Indiana golf, and um, obviously, you know, the rest is history. 36 years later, I'm still there.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

So having spent, you know, most of your growing up years and then through college playing golf, you didn't foresee a future in golf or you know, um back then, today, it seems like every division one golfer thinks they're gonna go pro.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

And um back then, that really wasn't the case. A lot of my teammates at Ball State went the head professional route, the club professional route. Um, we had a couple that that dabbled with the tour for a while, but I knew I wasn't good enough to do that. If you're not winning college events, you're not gonna win, you know, PGA tour events. Um, but I I did think for a while that I might go the golf professional route. And uh I took a job right out of college. It wasn't a great experience, so I decided it's not really what I wanted to do. And honestly, after playing collegiately for four years, I was kind of burnt out on it too. So um just decided to go a different route. But you know, golf was kind of in my blood, and uh when the opportunity with Indiana golf came along and I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do, I'm like, okay, that's that's still working within the sport, but not the golf professional route. So um, yeah, I thought I'd look at it and obviously it was a it was a good choice.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Oh my gosh. And I love the vision that you had for Indiana golf, and and I I think that, you know, when you walk in as a 27-year-old, you bring new energy, you bring fresh perspectives, and you need some life experience for sure. But what did you immediately see things that you thought had potential or did that come gradually after spending some time there? Tell me how a couple of the programs evolved and then we'll talk specifically.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

You know, I think when I started, it was just trying to grasp what we had going on at that point in time. I think if as a 27-year-old, if I were put into the role today, I would be completely overwhelmed. But the game and Indiana Golf as well has grown so much. And I was fortunate to kind of grow with it. So it wasn't, you know, thrown into the fire all at once. It was, hey, I can build this as I go and uh and and learn about things and oh, we should we should be more involved in this area or that area. So um it's really a 36-year evolution to get to where we are today. Um certainly didn't have the vision 20 or 36 years ago to know where we were gonna be today and think, oh, that's the route we got to take.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Who inspired you for the service component of what you have brought to Indiana Golf? And then we're gonna talk about specifics, but who was your inspiration for wanting to serve in that capacity of leading?

SPEAKER_01 4:42

You know, that's that's a great question. I I was hired, and at the time, Indiana Golf didn't have an executive director. They had gone through uh three executive directors in a short amount of time. The the board really had um some concerns about naming another executive director too quickly. So I was hired in an assistant tournament director's role, and eight to ten months into that role, the person that hired me resigned. And um I think the boards were left with no other choice but me. So I kind of fell into it, really. Honestly, that that's how it happened. And um I, you know, I made the best of the situation. I had a small staff at that point in time, but they were great people. And I think the key for for most of the success for Indiana Golf over the last 36 years is we've had really good boards of directors. I mean, we have I have multiple boards that I deal with because we're we have five organizations under our umbrella. I read that. Yeah, so it's it's unique um to other areas of the country because most don't have five, you know, golf-related not-for-profits. But um I I think the boards of those groups have always been committed to working together. Collaborating is a key thing for us, cooperation's a key thing for us. And in Indiana, the amateur side and the professional side actually joined forces in 1972, so long before my time. Yeah. Um, so that that joint relationship has been in place for a very, very long time, and it served Indiana very, very well. I I don't think we would have accomplished um a lot of the things we've accomplished here if we didn't have both sides working together and now the foundation and the superintendents and the coaches.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Why five entities? I'm interested in that. And and other states aren't you said that's unique to Indiana. What what's the thought behind that?

SPEAKER_01 6:37

No, I I think just just the timing and the vision here has been different. Our philosophy has been we want to be the vital hub for golf in Indiana. We want to be one-stop shopping for golf in Indiana. And if you go back to 1972, um, it was it was guys like Mickey Powell, who's in the PJ of America Hall of Fame and was a PJ of America president. Um, Boyd Hufty, who's an attorney in Indianapolis, who uh is also in the Indiana Golf Hall of Fame, John David, no relation to me, but he ran uh the Indiana Golf Association for 25 or 30 years. Um, and a couple other individuals that really had, I think, the foresight of thinking that hey, if we join forces, we can accomplish a lot more. And those those guys kind of um planted the the seeds for where we are today. That's neat. And I I'm always kind of surprised, Lisa, as to why other other states haven't gone the same route that we have, especially in some of the smaller golf markets, maybe not, you know, California or Florida. Right. But you know, Midwest and again some of the smaller markets, I think they would be better served to work together. Um, and in some cases they they kind of work together. The associations, the PGA and the Amateur Associations kind of work together. But in a lot of cases, there's just some animosity there and they don't really work that well. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Yeah. One of the goals of this podcast to to that point is to inspire new thinking for communities, large and small, you know, and not that Brown County has it all figured out because we we're we're in the trenches every day trying to figure things out here, or the state of Indiana has things figured out. But we do want to inspire new conversations for other communities. And so I believe like my collaboration with Columbus, it was timing. You know, they had a new executive director, the other one was just coming out of COVID, couldn't foresee, you know, how what that would look like. You know, so I think timing is a lot of uh how change can get implemented and timing and just having that open-mindedness.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Open mindedness, you know what, maybe this is worth looking at. And and maybe by um being a little more open, it opens more doors. There's more avenues out there. And I think that's that's certainly what we've found. And and we continue to find it. I mean, you know, we we added first tea to what we do here in Indiana about 13 years ago. Um, that's radically changed um how we operate on a daily basis and the impact we're having on the game. So I I just think you always have to be open to kind of new possibilities, new ideas, um, new opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Find that exciting. So first tea, y'all has served over 100,000 youth. And I'm gonna have you, if you would, just kind of tell us about that program and but a hundred thousand youth in 13 years, it's well actually it's a hundred thousand a year right now. I missed it.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

So it's a slightly bigger number, even, right? Oh my gosh, that's even more impressive. So we had an opportunity about 13 years ago. We we we formed our Indiana Golf Foundation, which is our charitable side in 1994. And you were co-founder of that. Yeah, I mean, I was I was the executive director when we founded that. Okay. Yes. Okay. And and the goal, obviously, with the foundation was charitable charitable aspects. We really wanted to focus on junior golf. We um added some scholarship programs that we didn't have before, and we put our our competitive junior tour under the foundation because the junior tour was recognizable, it was successful, yes, and it gave the foundation kind of some immediate credibility. Um, but then 13 years ago, uh, we had the opportunity to bring first tea under our umbrella largely because uh of Alice Dye, uh Pete Dye's wife. Alice was on the board of uh First T Indianapolis, and um she was worried about their long-term sustainability. She knew our foundation was pretty stable. We had more resources than they did. So she approached us about uh incorporating First T under Indiana Golf Foundation. And really, honestly, prior to that point, I really didn't know a lot about First T. In fact, in a lot of ways, they were competing with us from a fundraising standpoint. Okay. Um it really was at the time. Um but first tea is a national youth development organization. Obviously, it uses golf, but it really um builds character, it instills life skills that it's really hard to find in anything other than the sport of golf, because we even ask our we even asked donors um prior to taking first T under our umbrella, what other sport are you called, are you taught to call penalties on yourself? I mean, maybe tennis, but anything else, if you get away with the travel and basketball and you score, good for you, or hold in football and you score, that's okay. Golf is different, and it lends itself to teaching those life lessons. So uh first T is is a national youth development program, and we got involved really not knowing what we were getting ourselves into. At the time, we had programming in Indiana in Indianapolis and Richmond, and there were a couple of first T chapters in northern Indiana. Um, 13 years later, we have we're we have first T programming in 19 communities around the state. We um we have incorporated those other chapters under us now, so they are program locations for us. Um we are at uh 85 golf courses with first T programming. First T has a program called the National School Program, which offers golf instruction uh and the the intro to the life skills through PE classes in elementary and middle schools. So we're in 350 elementary and middle schools across the state of Indiana. So that gets us to our 125,000 kids reached annually number, uh, which is what we had in in 2025, and we're on pace to surpass that in 2026. But first T is a phenomenal program. I mean, golf definitely has a way of changing people's lives, but first tea, that's really the intent of first E.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

So golf for so long, you know, as I grew up with golf, it was kind of exclusive to a degree. Yeah. And so how do we bring in kiddos that otherwise would never find a golf club? I mean, do you provide equipment for them? Do people donate equipment? I mean, how does how does the whole thing work for the marginalized kids?

SPEAKER_01 13:16

That was really um the goal when First T was formed. First T was formed by the USGA, uh the PG of America, the PGA Tour, the um the LPGA, and Augusta National Golf Club. So those five organizations came together to form First T. And the goal was to offer golf to kids who otherwise might not have an opportunity to play the sport or be introduced to the sport. Right. But offering the game to kids and then not giving them an outlet doesn't really help that much because I think it's more of a perception, at least in Indiana, than a reality that it's expensive and it's exclusive and there's no opportunities to play. We actually did an economic impact study. The last one we did was three years ago, and Indiana is in the top 80% in the country for affordable and accessible golf. So there are plenty of opportunities out there for kids who want to play. And to your point, Lisa, we will find clubs for them, we will find golf course access for them because we want to make sure we don't get someone excited about the game and then they have they have no means of carrying that out. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Have you seen that kid? Um, and and I'm sure with a hundred thousand plus annually, you've seen a lot of these, but that one kiddo that walks up and and has that sense of awe and overwhelming, like, I belong here, you know, I can do this. And and I could only imagine, I get kind of goosebumps when I think about watching a kid go, you know, I never thought I would be playing golf.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

And so if you had those there are a lot of stories like that out there. Um, and and first T just lends itself to that because our coaches, and we've got 130 first T coaches statewide. Um, that's what they're doing on a daily basis. You know, they're they're interacting with the kids, they're teaching them the game, but they're also mentoring them too in other aspects besides for life skills. Exactly. Yeah. Um, so uh so that yeah, there's a lot of that going on. In fact, we have one of our first T kids who's playing practice rounds for the Pure Insurance, the champions tour event at Pebble Beach. And his partner this week is Bo Van Pelt from Richmond, who is like a tour player. Um, so it's kind of cool that Bo Bo, once Bo found out we had a junior golfer coming, this this young man's actually from South Bend. Um, once he found out we had someone that that made it into that event, he's like, I want to play with him. So uh he's a good one. Which I love that about your professional. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

That they have a heart too.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Oh, big time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

So how many years did it take you to realize that uh golf is bigger than the sport? It it's it's more encompassing than just learning a a better skill at you know, at shipping or putting.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

I mean, when did that I was a slow learner, I think, because growing up, I mean, I th my dad taught me how to play, and I think I started when I was seven or eight going to the course with him, and I I grew up playing the par three course in Columbus and then graduated to Greenbelt and then Otter Creek. Um, but um, you know, it really probably wasn't until we we were we got involved with First T that it that it hit me. I don't think that that's accurate as far as the the impact we were actually having. But when we got involved with First T, it was like, oh, okay, now I can kind of see that we are really making an effort to teach these life skills. Um and and I've found out since then we were really doing that before. I I played in a I'm a member at Hillview Country Club in Franklin, and I played a match against a guy, and um, we get done, and he happened to be one of our former junior players. And we get done, and we're walking off the 17th hole, we shake hands, you know, good match, whatever. And then he goes, you know, I gotta tell you this. Um golf, Indiana golf has had a dramatic impact on my life for me and my family both. And I just really feel like I need to tell you that. And I was like, you know, that's I I appreciate you saying that. But you you just you kind of do your daily thing and you really don't think about it too much until you get a story like that or someone saying something to you. And then it's then you start thinking about you know the impact we've had over the years.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Okay, this is weren't even aware of it. This is the filmmaker and me saying, Did you get that on camera? I didn't. And you need to play him at your donor don't.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

No, he just he had just waxed me in in our match, and I I wasn't uh I wasn't in the mood to video anything. I was just like, get me out of here. And he's he it was nice of him to say that.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

That is awesome. And I'm sure those are your rewards when you get that kind of feedback.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Well, I mean, the reward uh that's obviously a huge reward. I mean, I just feel um just uh fortunate that I've been able to work this long in a sport that I love.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Oh my goodness, yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Lots more days I'm excited about going to work than not, which I think that's a win. That's a huge win. Um, so uh the the benefits of having the impact that we're having on on kids and now adults with our PGA hope programming is significant.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Thank you for segueing right there because that's where I wanted to go. What is it that draws, you know, veterans who have come home and they're fighting the the hardest battle once they get home? What is it about golf that draws them in?

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah, you know, it's it's um the impact that PGA Hope and Hope stands for helping our patriots everywhere. It's a PJ of America program. I love it. Um most of the 41 PGA sections around the country have HOPE programming. Uh, I think we have embraced it on a pretty high level here. We have um in 2026, we'll have about just under 300 veterans that went through our program. And basically what the program does is give them um free lessons, a series of lessons. So teaching them either how to play or how to play better. And then what we do is we offer uh various play days for them. So excuse me, we'll set up um reduced tea times at a golf course, and then we'll have a staff member there. The veterans can sign up, it's either a reduced or free Greens fee, and then they can go play golf together and continue those relationships that they built during the the the clinic set part of it. But what what we've seen with golf, and it's you know it's interesting that um we had a couple of national meetings and and they were talking about PGA hope, and there were there were veterans actually saying it saved my life. I would not leave the house. I was thinking, what do I have to live for? Spouse or a friend drug them to this first clinic, and um, you know, they they met people they could they could share stories with, um, they had a lot in common with, and golf gave them this outlet where you know, golf's a unique sport because you're spending time together, you're talking, you know, you're not you're not running up and down a court or a field, you have a lot of quality time together. Because it's hours, the round takes hours, exactly. And I think there's kind of a therapeutic act um, you know, side to the game in general. But um, a couple years ago, we we had one of our veterans send our director of player development an email, and in that he said, it saved my life. I was suicidal and it completely changed my life. And to hear that the game can do that um is I mean, it's amazing to me. And and I think it goes back to I've been so close to it for so long, yes, that you sometimes lose sight of of the impact because you're just focused on what we do on a day-to-day basis. Um, but when you hear a story like that, it's it's pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

And I read some of those stories when I researched PGA Hope. And it's amazing. I'm like, oh my gosh, do you guys even realize what you're the lifeline that you're offering our values? I do now.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

I I don't think we did when we first started. I mean, we thought it was a cool program and it was definitely worth getting involved with. Um, but uh, but but now we we certainly understand the impact that it really is having.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

You know, my dad always wanted me, and and my dad, you know, he grew up on dirt floors in Kentucky, so he's very much a self made man, which I admired through my life. But he was able, he caddied. That's how he started. He caddied, and a gentleman that he used to caddy for uh gave him his first set of golf clubs, and that's how he developed his love of golf. And my mom played, and he wanted me to play because he Wanted me to become a business major. And he said, Do you know how many deals are made on the the golf? A lot of truth there. And I do think, you know, looking back, that I wonder how many just incredible important conversations, not just about making deals, but you know, advancing the ball in whatever area that that that happened on the golf course while they're advancing the ball to the hall.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

I mean, all everything you said is true, Lisa. I mean, there are the relationships built on the golf course. Um, business deals or otherwise. The the the just the things that happen when you're with someone for three and a half to four and a half hours, yeah, it's pretty significant. Um, and the caddy side of things, it's interesting you bring that up. There's there's a caddy program called the Evans Scholar Program, which we are actually not a part of, but it is a fantastic program. It's a fantastic program. Um and and they're headquartered, the Western Golf Association's headquartered in Chicago, Illinois. And we have, we've probably got 10 or 12 clubs in Indiana that have an active caddy program. Um, and that program is fantastic because it's it's mentoring kids when they're caddying for someone, but it's also giving them full rides to colleges if they meet certain criteria. So uh Indy, IU and Purdue both have Evans Scholar houses where the kids live there. I mean, they're they're basically they're getting a free education because they've gone through um this caddying um training as as they were growing up.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

And that caddy position is as important almost as the golfer. I mean, it can be for our professionals when I when I watch how much they depend on the notes that caddy's taken and the yardage and the distance and the clutch.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Oh my gosh. Of course, they're a lot better than most players, so they need it down to the yard. I I don't need it quite that precise.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

But the skill set to to that point that a caddy can learn, you know, to to take it into any area in life, you know, it's pressure early. Exactly. It's how you navigate that stress, somebody's depending on you.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Without a doubt.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

And so I just love everything uh about you know looking at all this from a bigger lens and the life lessons that are involved.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Lots of them.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Lots of them. What would you want viewers or our listeners, subscribers, whatever you want to call them, what would you want to share that I haven't asked you today that you would want them to know about Indiana golf and and the foundation programs? And and then we're gonna talk about the We Plural Promise here in a second.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Yeah, um, I I I think the real the theme I want to get out is that the sport is much more accessible than a lot of people believe it to be. And again, as I already mentioned, here in Indiana it's even more accessible than the average location. But I think the accessibility is the key. Um, my dad passed away when he was 90. He played golf three months before he died. So it is truly the sport of a lifetime. Um, you can play it forever. There's not very many sports that you can say you can do that with. And I just think the the relationships. Um, I just went on a golf trip to Wisconsin with seven other guys, and um, I think three or four of those I've known since high school. Uh that's incredible. So you build those relationships, and I think it's really unlike any other sport that you have that opportunity to form those bonds.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

I think tennis is undergoing kind of an interesting time with the uh growing, the very fast growing sport of pickleball. Yes. And I think, oh, you know, how's tennis gonna protect its longstanding reputation and sport and all the the majors, you know, Wimbledon and US Open and and all of those things. And do you feel like anything's kind of coming up on golf that you guys need to protect yourself from?

SPEAKER_01 25:56

I you know, um certainly not right now. And and um, you know, you hate to you hate to give something credit that was so bad, but COVID had a major positive impact on the game of golf. It did so many bad things, but it really pushed a lot of people to the game. And since 2020, the numbers with golf are as high as they've ever been. And I I don't know that we'll sustain the growth where we are right now forever, but I don't think it'll ever go back to pre-COVID because I think a lot of people came back to the game that you know left it for whatever reason. I think a lot of people came to the game for the first time and enjoyed it. The other thing you have is there are so many hybrid work schedules out there right now that it's a lot easier to sneak away from your house at two o'clock in the afternoon than your desk. Yes. So I think that's had an impact on the amount of people.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

So because it's outside, do you think people know safer?

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Yeah, well, without a doubt. I mean, during COVID, when I go play, that that's the safest place I felt the entire time. There were so many unknowns, but on the golf course, it was like this is home. I'm breathing air, yes, and no one's really around me. Um, but but the the stat the National Golf Foundation put out about a year and a half ago, and and this is really, I think, a testimony to the game, the highest growing uh population in golf right now, I think, is uh 25 to 34 year olds. So that bodes well for the future of the game, without a doubt.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

It sure does. Have there been any players in your mind at a national level that have significantly changed um the perception of golf? Like was do you think Tiger had a lot of people?

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Well, I I mean Tiger had a phenomenal impact on the game. I mean, there's no doubt that he he when you saw the growth when Tiger was going through um, you know, his his the highlight of his career. So I I definitely think that's been that that was huge. But I think today, I mean, there's so many good players out there, whether it's Scotty Scheffler or Rory or who are great guys. Yeah, exactly. They're very few who very few tour players I have heard from over the years that are like, oh, you that he's not a good guy. I mean, the vast majority of them are really quality people. Yeah, um, and I think that makes it easier to follow them as well. But there's just a wealth of talent. You know, the commercials, these guys are good, but I don't think the average player understands how good they really are. I mean, it's they play at a different level than any of the rest of us do.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

So um, I'm gonna share a little secret with you all. I couldn't decide if I was gonna tell the story on myself or not, but I grew up, as you know, playing and played intramural and uh then had a family and a career. Yeah, and I had no time to play golf. So then when my boys were old enough, I wanted to get them out. But I wanted to play like I was playing when I left golf and the game had left the building, and I had a potty mouth, and I had to quit playing because I couldn't control my potty mouth. And I I didn't want to be teaching my boys those words as well as golf. So I just cheered them on and I caddied for them and you know, we drove them around, but I quit playing for that reason.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

And um that's good self-awareness on your on your part. Yeah, it could it could bring out some frustrations without a doubt.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Or a lack of great self-control. Or lack of control. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

So that's why with first T, I mean, some of the nine core values are patience, perseverance, sportsmanship. See, we can all learn from some of those.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Oh, I need to go through first T programming, there's no doubt, because patience is not my greatest virtue. In fact, I'm not even sure it exists in my bones, but all that to say what great information you've given us today. So here, here it comes. Yeah. My We Plural Promise, Travis and I, uh, when we were planning this summer for this podcast, you guys, Travis is awesome. Um, we wanted to leave people with just a little nugget. So the WePlural Promise is really a call to action. And so for those listening today and say, gosh, you know, where do I start? What do I do? How do I learn about these programs for my kids? What would that call to action be uh for you, your We Plural Promise?

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Yeah, so I'd I'd I'd list a couple of things. Um our website, indianagolf.org, has a bunch of information on first E, on uh PGA professionals that you could turn to for lessons. Um that'd be the first step. But I I think that the other part of golf that's grown right now is the non-green grass side of things. So we were talking earlier before we went on air, Lisa, about the indoor opportunities with sim simulators and those things. Yes, yes, yes. Topgolf is huge. Um, one of my first visits to Topgolf, we were leaving and there were four 20-something ladies, young ladies walking in, dressed like they were going out to the club, but they were going to Top Golf and they were going to have a couple drinks and hit golf balls. So that's a great opportunity for people. It's fun. It is, it's a fun setting. There's no pressure on how you hit a shot, whether you hit it good or not. But I I think just pick up a club and kind of see where that leads you would be would be my recommendation. There are a lot of opportunities out there.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

I love top golf for that reason. It really um promotes community and you know, gathering around the game of golf, but in such a fun way that makes you want to then find the golf course.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Hopefully that's the case. That's the goal. But if nothing else, it it is introducing you to the game.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

And it's it's a fun way to do it.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Yes. How much longer can we um assume that you're gonna be leading us in Indiana golf?

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Um, my contract's another a little over four years, so at least another four years, and that gets me to 40 years. So that's probably a good stopping point, I think.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Which is an incredibly longstanding leadership role. And we're so thankful for you. We're so thankful that you've been at the helm. I can tell you're just a really great guy with great energy and lots of good ideas, and thank you for advancing Indiana golf the way you have with your partners.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Thank you very much. I've had a lot of good help, but uh but it's been fun.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

It's been a pleasure today. Thank you for coming to Brown County. Okay, we might have to do this again uh as new developments come about, or we'll never know.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

We never know what tomorrow might bring with us. Look forward to it. That'd be fantastic. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Thank you, Mike. And you guys, this episode would not have been made possible without Orange Brand Design, who is here in Brown County lending creativity to all who need it, and I am thankful for thankful for them. And pickle on pin, and they are located in Carmel, Indiana, and again, they are changing community one game at a time. These are my friends, you all, and I could not have done this podcast without them. So thank you, thank you, thank you. That's it for today, you guys. Uh, wePlural podcast. You can go to weplural.com to listen, or wherever you find your favorite podcast, you can go to Facebook, Instagram. Just stay in contact with us, and we really want you to come build with us.